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4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

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  • 4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

    Can anyone remind me of what setting these are, pitch etc?? :smhair:

    Cheers

    Chester

  • #2
    4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

    Hi Chester

    123 deg. at 12 ins from centre, just thinking of knocking mine back .25/.50 deg.have never been happy with the rpm it pulls ,never seen more than 6k even when pulling the bar in...

    blade clamps torque to 10 ftlbs,hub bolts 12.5 ftlbs,if your bothered!

    cheers john

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    • #3
      4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

      Cheers John,

      I have a crap climb rate and 3 of my blades are at 121 and another at 119 so I am going to have a fiddle and see if I can improve it. My rpm seems fine though. Many thanks

      Chester

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      • #4
        4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

        Hi Chester, What rpm can you manage,on the ground and when youre flying?
        sometimes i need all my 65 hp.....and i think we need 6200/6500 for that.

        cheers john

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        • #5
          4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

          Do remember two things - adjusting from the official setting is verboden as it invalidates the noise certificate, and hence, the Permit to Fly, and, (lecture over) if you have to change pitch to get the recognised correct revs from your engine, there's a problem.

          First check is that your rev counter is reading correctly (beg or borrow an optical tacho or use a DVM with frequency reading on the alternator output). If that's okay, and you're really sure the prop is correct and correctly pitched, you need to get down and dirty with the engine I'm afraid. Note that max revs will vary with the weather to a degree.

          Dave

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          • #6
            4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

            Hi Dave

            not sure about "correct " rpm.....i can not find specifics for a 582 this side of rotax (and they tell it from the engines point of view,not noise regs). if you own a 912 or 912s they are set to well below max power rpm (in this country anyway, as you state for noise).
            It was the "interesting 2 stroke vid." linked to this site that got me rethinking, especially if we over load a 2 stroke we are over heating it (cht up, egt down) and running in the "lean" cruise part of the fuel curve....
            Dont get me wrong i'm not being at all radical but if 0.25 deg would make my engine happier then....

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            • #7
              4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

              just re found the link,http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=626943072001,

              my business is engines so i can't help myself!

              john

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              • #8
                4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

                John, I am getting 6800rpm but it will be interesting to see what happens when I adjust the prop!

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                • #9
                  4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

                  John, Just doing the 'BMAA inspector hat' bit in letting people, who may not appreciate the the possible dangers, know. I'm impressed by your 0.25 degree precision. I find it hard enough to get accuracy to within one degree ;-)
                  That's why I like Ivoprops...

                  Dave

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                  • #10
                    4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

                    Hi Dave,I thought that would provoke someone that "knew" about setting props!
                    It drives me very patiently demented.......but i am aware that while i might be getting all 4 blades almost the same pitch (within a few minutes) ,the actual value is dependent upon how you "bolt" the setting tool to the blade. so could imagine 3 different people getting 3 different values. and hense my thoughts that after double checking the crappy little rpm meter i will try to use the rpm as a guide to most efficient engine prop match.
                    I dont imagine i will be straying outside of the 123 deg setting what ever the tollerance is? looked but can only find definitive values related to TADS. oh and the motor is good...first thing i would ask!
                    so in your experience.......what rpm do you see out of a good 582.

                    cheers john

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                    • #11
                      4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

                      You know I'm not terribly familiar with 582s. But I think it's fair to say that all Rotax two-strokes should achieve around 6500rpm at full throttle in a reasonably fast climb. I note that, for example, the F2A TADs quotes a maximum of 6800 for the 503 and 462, but 6400 for the 582 engined versions. Maximum power occurs in the 6200-6500 band. I'd worry about engine longevity if it regularly exceeded 6700, and about ability to get out sensibly at MAUW if I couldn't get 6200. (Not casting any aspersions here, but it was not unknown for a designer to 'overprop' an engine in order to get the aircraft through the noise tests...)

                      Check flew a 582* F2A last week and it could be pushed to nearly 7000rpm, so suggested the owner check to see if his prop was a little too fine (he'd definitely not been fiddling with it).

                      As you must be aware, weather conditions will have a great influence, so it's best to gather performance data over several flights before making adjustments.

                      I assume you're aware of the 'trick' for adjusting blades finely? Slacken off the clamp bolts just enough to be able to grasp the blade tip and move it in a circle in the opposite direction to which you want the blade to twist. The blade 'walks' its way around in the clamp. By varying the order of steps in which you tighten up the bolts on either side of the collar, you can also get an extra fine final adjustment.

                      Dave

                      *Actually, it was a 503. Sorry.

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                      • #12
                        4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

                        Thats very interesting Dave ,thankyou ,suspected similar about the noise cert.

                        agree 7k a little high ,definately the wrong side of the power curve,apart from the engine life issues.

                        I know what you mean about twisting a pipe in a pipe but never thought of doing that on a prop,cheers that'll cut the job in half.

                        Ive got 100 hrs on this engine now so think its time for a little fine tuning,thanks for the advice,especially the figures

                        john

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                        • #13
                          4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

                          I used to check and adjust mine all the time (582 Blade with 4 blade warp). Haven't touched them for years now and always get 6450rpm on climb out. Oddly my owners handbook shows that when it was checkflighted 3 of the blades were at 123 degrees and one at 119 degrees. Mentioned it to Roger once and I think he said it wouldn't have flown ... but very odd that another poster has found his set similarly.
                          Mike

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                          • #14
                            4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

                            Blade 582 was definitely over propped coarse to get through noise certificate, seem to remember being told at Barton when Jennifer Murray and Colin Bodill were there.

                            Kev
                            G-KEVA
                            BMAA 5696

                            "If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls."

                            R.J. Mitchell :- Designer of the Supermarine Spitfire

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                            • #15
                              4 Blade Warpdrive Prop Setting on Blade 582

                              Hello

                              It is not possible to compare the Flash 2 Alpha and the Blade with the Rotax 582 engines as the Alpha has the low noise 582 engine which gives peak power at 6000 rpm and max rpm at 6400 and the Blade had the full power 582 engine which gives peak power at around 6400-6500 rpm (cannot remember the exact figure).

                              The pitch setting is measured using the Mainair prop setting tool and not the Warp Drive tool. If you find the Warp Drive tool easier to work with then set one prop blade with the Mainair Tool and then make sure all of the others are then set to the same angle. It should be possible to get them all within 1/2 degree of each other anything worse and vibration could start to get significant.

                              The TADS figures are correct and should give the published climb or a very close approximation of, 582 Alpha at 370kg AUW should climb at around 660 ft/min and Blade 582 at 390kg around 800 ft/min. This is assuming everything else is correct, engine okay, batten profile correct etc etc.

                              Dave Smith is correct get an optical tacho to confirm what your engine revs really are, as two stroke rev counters are not the most reliable and a couple of 100 rpm at the top end can make a big difference.

                              Roger
                              P&M Aviation

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