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  • Briggs

    I am sure somewhere on this forum I have seen something about these engines but despite having a good look can not find what I was looking for

    Has anybody got any info thoughts experience or actually got one of these engines that I have spied on the dreaded E BAY

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Briggs-Stratton-Vanguard-engines-for-hovercraft-MC-30-aircraft-etc-/121208903432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c389d 1708

    :nono:

  • #2
    Briggs

    There have been several threads and many posts about these engines. Several are in use and you will find what you are looking for by searching kev Armstrong on this topic.

    Comment


    • #3
      Briggs

      There are details here of how to search the forum:

      http://forums.bmaa.org/default.aspx?...118899#m118899

      Comment


      • #4
        Briggs

        a slight misunderstanding I know that there is lots of posts on the Briggs engines thanks to Kevin but what I was meaning to ask was has anybody used one of the engines provided by this particular seller. he tunes them up himself and the price seems to be very competitive

        http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Briggs-Stratton-Vanguard-engines-for-hovercraft-MC-30-aircraft-etc-/121208903432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c389d 1708

        Comment


        • #5
          Briggs

          Hi Gary
          --------> It is a specialist area of engine tuning on these engines, not to
          be tackled by an amateur.

          The base engine is
          a good one but it has to be modified correctly to make it reliable.
          It needs the correct internal and external tuned parts that you have to
          get from a specialist company.

          You mention
          a company that sells these base engines in the UK, that seem to be
          tuned higher than the original engine, but they do not make them for
          aircraft use and there are many differences. They would certainly not have the
          same design or practical requirements as we do for flying incorporated in
          these engines.

          Maybe I can point
          you to the right people who tune these engines if you email me. You know
          my address? Or pm me.

          Thanks and hope to
          help you.

          John Penry-Evans

          Comment


          • #6
            Briggs

            Hello John ....it was just that I was browsing !! ebay that I came across the engines for sale I have looked at the briggs and sttratton engines before but discounted them as being too heavy but now that it looks things might change in that respect I thought it might be worth another look....so its more curiosity than anything else..The company in question " does " seem to have quite a lot of experience with theses engines and the tuning of them . all be it by using them in a different mode of transport, sometimes other sports / pastimes are ahead of the game regarding engine tuning and that alone might be worth a second look !.....Just a thought

            http://www.flyingfishhovercraft.co.uk/Buy-A-Hovercraft/Briggs-Stratton-Hovercraft-Engines.aspx

            Comment


            • #7
              Briggs

              Gary Shaw wrote: The company in question " does " seem to have quite a lot of experience with theses engines and the tuning of them . all be it by using them in a different mode of transport, sometimes other sports / pastimes are ahead of the game regarding engine tuning and that alone might be worth a second look !
              If you look through Kev's posts there was some discussion about the supplied product and the issues of redrive - the ones you can use for microlights can't be used in the wet environment of the hovercraft.

              It also appears to be supplied without the exhaust or redrive. As Kev has posted elsewhere, making very important points about the Vanguards with questionable exhausts, it's not as simple as believing what's put out there.

              You can buy and mod the Vanguard, but the Hover people will only offer you a guarantee in a hovercraft.

              Comment


              • #8
                Briggs

                Ive had a email back from them after I asked them some searching questions....
                and yes there is no exhaust or redrive, fitted to these engines that they are selling...( even if they did I am sure that Ace Aviations redrive would be a better fittment ) and they have not sold one to anybody that they are AWARE that is is being used for aviation use..
                Looks like its back to the drawing board and onward with the Honda FJS silver wing project ....Dam I didnt mean to say that the cats out of the bag....shhhh

                Comment


                • #9
                  Briggs

                  Hi Gary

                  As the person who supplied all the tuning parts for Kevin's project I may be able to help should you decide to go the briggs route. I am now in light of the proposed weight increase for SSDR looking into importing the parts and or 'complete engines' that could well be suitable for our use.

                  I can also confirm that the Ace re-drive will fit and handle the power of the larger engine and that I have stock ready to go in the UK.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Briggs

                    Anyone tackling the Briggs upgrades needs deep pockets if they decide to go it alone; I've had two development glitches that had to be fixed and been lucky to avoid others.

                    These aren't through any fault of the engine, after all if you don't rig a 912 properly it will break itself or the surrounding structure, and even when you do a 912S still spit carb rubbers and formerly, exhausts.

                    The first semi-catastrophe was when I decided to hitch the fan crud screen to the outer cowling so it was none-rotating, instead of bolted to the fan and going round with it; this was because reaching behind to shut fuel or similar would cheese-grater your glove and hand on the rotating holey screen quite effectively. What wasn't obvious is the steel screen is punched from solid sheet rather than mesh, deliberately done so it is strong enough to brace the fan at high revs. Cue unbraced fan 'grows' at high revs and shatters itself on the outer casing, damaging the ignition coils and bulging the steel cowl itself.

                    New cowl, fan with a simple and cheap to make cross-bracing strap assembly on the bolts in place of the screen, and some epoxy on the coil casings got it flying again, it was even flown cross-channel.

                    The second was the advance plates, I'm pretty proud of this idea, as the mag coils are mounted on adapter plates which can be drilled to set them to give provide varying levels of advance, accurately, and seemed better engineering than the usual way to advance the ignition on US racing motors, using a stepped crankshaft key. The screws are tiny and I either didn't torque them enough or perhaps too much, this released one of the coils which went on to bust the nose off the starter-motor and lunch the fan again, along with itself.

                    Cure was to increase the size of the bolts holding the mounting plates from 4mm to 5mm countersunk and Loctite the screws. You could take them out to 6mm if needed, repairs weren't too bad on cost, about 50 for the coils (changing both so everything is shiny) and Dan Curtis kindly posted over his spare fan.

                    The core engine (touch wood) has been stone reliable with Iridium plugs and will hand swing when warm quite easily; the big camshaft overlap (it's 280) to overcome the fairly asthmatic breathing of the stock heads and inlet manifold means compression at lowest rpm is mostly dumped, only picking up as revs and momentum builds in the manifolds.

                    Price that Flying Fish supply unmodified engines for is a good one, I paid about 100 more from a distributor in Great Dunmow, so actually worth buying that and then going to Brian for the tune-up bits. If you shelled out for the Flying Fish tuned up motor you still have to strip it to machine down that manhole cover flywheel that Briggs fit, probably pull the main cover to clean out all the governor crap (you don't need a governor when the propeller does such a good job anyway).

                    The steel air filter is massively heavy too as befits an engine that might get stuff dropped on it; Brian supplies a nice K&N air filter adapter with a free throttle lever and spring, again you will need to factor in that cost.

                    A health warning; the early version with red cowling and shallow fan will probably overheat and cook itself, the later engines have a bigger fan and deeper cowling and cool very well indeed. This was confirmed on one of the US racing sites, and I have seen the older type for sale, probably being offloaded for the upgraded version. P&M dumped the cooling fan and used air scoops, this is engine suicide; mine's been thrashed to 5,400' at full throttle with stable CHT temps, in fact I've deleted the CHT gauge on the new trike and gone for oil temp instead.

                    The redrive was designed with some big factors in it and even after being blathered in oil when a carelessly slack plug came out, and cleaned using dried pea crop it could be flown out and still has the same belt on it from new.

                    Cheers

                    Kev

                    Attached files
                    G-KEVA
                    BMAA 5696

                    "If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls."

                    R.J. Mitchell :- Designer of the Supermarine Spitfire

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Briggs

                      Update

                      New coils arrived yesterday from the USA, the cost being half what it would have been to purchase in the UK, even after paying for postage.

                      Bolted up the engine last night, grabbed chance to fettle some things that had been put off until the opportunity arose too.

                      Dropped it back onto the trike at lunchtime, by 2:30 it was ground-running and a quick circuit says all is well.

                      Let's hope I've got the last of the bugs sorted now for next year's flying season

                      Cheers

                      Kev
                      G-KEVA
                      BMAA 5696

                      "If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls."

                      R.J. Mitchell :- Designer of the Supermarine Spitfire

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Briggs

                        Excellent!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Briggs

                          Mike Cowlishaw wrote: Excellent!
                          Had chance for a longer run now Mike, 1 hour and 20 minutes at varying heights up to just under 3000', and different cruise speeds and throttle openings, oil running a little cool despite totally blanked cooler and even a wrap around the oil filter. Tempted to remove the cooler altogether or rig a bypass tap.

                          Thick cold air has slowed the wing down to 55-58mph and max bar in pulled of about 65, however fuel burn has gone down as well. Even fully lean the engine would not run hot, am now wondering whether a cautiously applied cowl blanking cover will help and also reduce power loss from the fan.

                          This could do to be removable in flight, in case it starts to cook a little.

                          When really warmed up the engine does something that Jabirus tend to as well, after stopping the conrod big end bearings tighten up on the crank and make it stiff to turn, several hand swings pump a little oil round and this goes away. According to one paratrike website, they have 250 hours and no signs of unusual wear noises on one unit, so next task is to see how long mine goes for without attention other than oil and filter changes. Tappet checks reveal no changes.

                          I'm now drooling over the Subaru Robin EH72 fuel injected 720cc 28hp unit, but there appear to be little or no tuning parts for it. Pity as with a steel crank it should be good for 40-50hp.

                          Another tempting route is to be lazy and just bolt the big fat 990cc 35bhp Vanguard on with standard internals, or stretch for the Flying Fish unit at 52hp; either option is a piece of cake, bolt an Ace reduction on and hang a stock exhaust on longer header pipes. This will have to wait for 300 kilo legality though as it puts mine over the 115 limit.

                          Surprised no one else has tried this before



                          Dan flying it

                          Kev
                          G-KEVA
                          BMAA 5696

                          "If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls."

                          R.J. Mitchell :- Designer of the Supermarine Spitfire

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Briggs

                            Interesting -- thanks for the update & video.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Briggs

                              Gosh
                              Just realised
                              You are the ideal man to reprogramme the ECU on that little Subaru Robin to remove the speed limiter or shift it up to 5000rpm...

                              Just a thought

                              Kev
                              G-KEVA
                              BMAA 5696

                              "If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls."

                              R.J. Mitchell :- Designer of the Supermarine Spitfire

                              Comment

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