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Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

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  • Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

    This is meant for the FAQ section.

    Does anyone know exactly what the rules are for adding three-axis microlights to an NPPL (Microlight) weightshift?

    Can't see anything in Lasors or the NPPL web site.

    I know the old PPL (Microlight) allowed you to fly all types of microlight, although an ACST (Alternative Controls Sills Test) was highl;y recommended, but not compulsory.

    ps. Also, why do we still have GFTs for microlights but GSTs for SLMGs and SSEAs?

  • #2
    Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

    Jeremy wrote:

    How on earth we have managed to get into quite such a complex mess of rules is beyond me.
    Dead easy; simply assume that the answer to every perceived problem is to create more; also to assume that the answer to every anamoly is to create a ruling, which then creates more anamolies, which prompts the creation of more rules to cope with the anamolies created by ...
    The answer to all this is to have less rules, and make the remainder simple but give them teeth, a view which the Americans seem to subscribe to - and hence do rather well as a result. For perfect parallel examples see 'Tax' and 'pensions'

    In a way the CAA are making life as difficult for themselves as for us; I recently rang airworthiness to discover why a Spamcan can have its Garmin on a yoke mount without paperwork, but a microlight needs the BMAA's huge technical document, (unless of course, you take the less safe alternative and stick it on your map-board instead of properly fitting it to the panel - but there you are). Airworthiness were stumped, until eventually Jayne Barrett called later on to say that Spamcans needed a mod form regardless, at least I think that is what she said.

    If an ex BMAA chairman, Microlight pilot, Civil Servant and Scientist can't suss the licencing rules, what the heck chance have more ordinary mortals? Answer, as in many things, is to take firm grip of your own personal safety, and act accordingly. If that fits the rules, as it mostly does, then so be it.

    You no doubt are going to grab an instructor to suss fixed wing control, I wouldn't go near one without after 14 years of pure weightshift experience; hopefully, but not always, he'll have your answer... :eyes: Kev
    G-KEVA
    BMAA 5696

    "If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls."

    R.J. Mitchell :- Designer of the Supermarine Spitfire

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    • #3
      Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

      Kev,

      I'm an instructor - I'm meant to know the rules!

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      • #4
        Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

        Colin

        I was certain that this was in writing as I remember being told that I could not just go and fly a 3 axis without getting a sign off, when I completed my training.

        The NPPL site faq has no mention, there is no mention in the cross training credits document and there is no reference to the different types of microlight (flexwing/3 axis) except for NPPL(M) to NPPL(SEP) to include suitable cross training if the pilot was flying flexwings.

        Without anything in writing, I would suggest that it would be on an instructor sign-off. Whilst not illegal to just go ahead, incredibly stupid and very liable to leave you uninsured.

        The proposed NPPL changes have separate ratings for flexwing and fixed wing NPPL(M) licenses.

        Comment


        • #5
          Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

          I'm just doing this as I fly a Flash 2A and want to increase my piloting skills. I can't afford a three axis job yet (though, there may be ways)

          I have done loads of (have a go) three axis stuff thanks to the great guys at the airfield I use.

          Including various rates of banked turnes (upto 90 degrees in a Slingsby), slow flying, stall recovery, side slipping (at altitude) Recently I have even landed two different types where the landing was (all mine) I have flown Cessnas, Rans, Jodels, Areoncas, Bulldog (including a snap roll, never again, felt really sick)Xair,AX 2000, PA20. OK, lucky me

          Question is, as all the above was not "log bookable" (is that a word?) as the pilots where not qualified instructors, how many hours do I need to do for a three axis conversion?

          Early landing attempts really require a qualified instructor incase you get it wrong, the guy who gave me a go early on had over 2000 hours as a Glider instructor but wasn't a qualified group A or microlight instructor, so I could not officially book the time. Another must is full insurance on the aircraft, its fine with my mates giving me a go, but if I bend it, the insurance company would have a fit. So I'm paying for:- A bookable instructor, full insurance and a sign off as three axis trained.

          But, how many hours do I need to book? Does my log book get signed off? Do I even need to solo? If I am P1 I don't care who is sitting with me.

          If I ever get to buy a Rans I would take a couple of hours extra training anyway, it would be silly not to.

          Regards Ray Hutty

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          • #6
            Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

            Ray.... if you are at Spamfield I intend to fly around the Island in a 3 axis machine and as my Co Pilot only see's flying as a means of getting from A to B via Prada or Dolce & Gabana I will be going round Solo, so if you fancy a pole...you can come with !!!

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            • #7
              Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

              Hi Ray, you need to satisfy a microlight flying instructor that you are competent and he can then sign off your logbook as difference training from weightshift to three axis has been satisfactorily completed. No actual time requirement though normally 5-10 hrs ab-initio. Hope this helps you, Chris.

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              • #8
                Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

                :rofl:

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                • #9
                  Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

                  Ray... Where do you fly from?

                  (5 to go )

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                  • #10
                    Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

                    Peter, Mount Airey or Mount Scarey ( try landing a flexy in a 10mph north westerley with the rotor off the trees)

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                    • #11
                      Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

                      Hi,

                      No transponder needed - except for Class A airspace (ie Heathrow Airport and airways)

                      If you are passing, call in to Strathaven, south of Glasgow,

                      Very best wishes,

                      Colin

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                      • #12
                        Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

                        Extract from:

                        CAP 393 - Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations



                        (7) He shall not fly:

                        (i) the aeroplane has 3 axis controls and his previous training and experience

                        (ii) the aeroplane has flexwing controls and his previous training and

                        unless appropriate differences training has been completed and recorded in his .

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                        • #13
                          Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

                          I thought I understood the 'Requirements' when I read Chris's post in which he states ;
                          "you need to satisfy a microlight flying instructor that you are competent and he can then sign off your logbook as difference training from weightshift to three axis has been satisfactorily completed. No actual time requirement though normally 5-10 hrs ab-initio."
                          Then I read Colin's post and went to re-read CAP 393 in which I can find no mention of what constitutes "differences training" and no mention of the record in our personal log books having to be completed by an instructor.
                          I don't challenge that it is good practice or that it may be accepted practice to do differences training with an instructor until such time as he/she is happy to sign your book but is it actually a requirement and if so where is it written.

                          Cheers. Mark

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                          • #14
                            Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

                            Well spotted Colin

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                            • #15
                              Weightshift to three-axis - what is the rule?

                              Going from weightshift to 3 axis or vice versa is serious stuff. Not normally a problem to become competent on the different type. But beware of "reversion to type" which is what you just might do in an unexpected emergency when basic instinct takes over.
                              There have been a number of fatal accidents where the pilot pulled when he should have pushed, and applied more aileron when he should have levelled the wings. It's difficult to erase the basic flying skills you learned when a student pilot, so as to fly a machine where most of the controls work in the opposite sense.

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