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  • #31
    Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

    Donald Walker wrote: Terry,

    My reply to your post of 9:22 has been deleted. Have you bribed someone to censor opposing views?

    Donald
    No one has deleted your reply. I suspect you clicked the wrong button which is why there is now an orphaned post in this forum with no subject which can't be merged with this thread because the forum lacks the software capability.

    The easiest way to rectify this is for you to click on the button in the post of Terry's you were replying to, then cut and paste your text from the other thread there, before deleting your post in the other thread with no subject. Convoluted, but that's dotNetBB for you.

    Only one post has been deleted in this thread and that was by its creator. Apart from preparation of the poll for Terry there has ben no moderation so far in this thread.

    Comment


    • #32
      Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

      Terry Viner wrote: Laurie, This is at this present moment in time an idea open for consultation, If there was ever going to be a scheme brought in then we would have to find out all the facts and then have round two of consultation, You as members moan enough about not knowing what's going on and all I've done is come up with a preliminary idea that could help with membership retention and possible gain the BMAA new members,
      As you can see by the reaction of the few that they would carry on and use a yearly subscription so no change, this is purely aimed at the others that want to be members, maybe not even flyers that could spread the cost without affecting their weekly budget, There are quite a lot of members at present that cannot afford high fees especially when in one lump payment so this could help to retain them, Another reason is because I personally are one of those people that find it very difficult to lay out large sums of money in one go, after all 70 membership is half my weekly income. I have to find ways to spread my outgoings so that I can afford to fly and drive even,
      Just as an reply to What Andy said earlier, if they cant afford it they shouldnt possible be flying, Well, what about the syndicate members that cant afford their own planes, What about the fee reduction at shows,(if they cant afford the full price they shouldnt be going) plus al the many more sinarios that we ust to save money or spread the cost,

      TV
      Don't take it personally Terry, it's just a debate. I admire you for the hard work you put in, it is commendable.

      With this sort of stuff you can never win.

      Comment


      • #33
        Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

        Steve Uzochukwu wrote:
        Originally posted by Donald Walker
        Terry,

        My reply to your post of 9:22 has been deleted. Have you bribed someone to censor opposing views?

        Donald
        No one has deleted your reply. I suspect you clicked the wrong button which is why there is now an orphaned post in this forum with no subject which can't be merged with this thread because the forum lacks the software capability.

        The easiest way to rectify this is for you to click on the button in the post of Terry's you were replying to, then cut and paste your text from the other thread there, before deleting your post in the other thread with no subject. Convoluted, but that's dotNetBB for you.

        Only one post has been deleted in this thread and that was by its creator. Apart from preparation of the poll for Terry there has ben no moderation so far in this thread.
        Thanks Steve. I saw it was "Posted Today at 9:35 AM" and thought it had gone to the correct thread. Good to know that Terry is not involved in dirty tricks.
        :-)

        Comment


        • #34
          Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

          Terry,

          As you know, I don't mind you calling me names, it is the moderators that object.

          I think you are more likely to attract members by continuing to expand your good work with the simulator and by promoting the build-a plane project, than by offering monthly subs.

          A direct debit mandate can be cancelled online, so the office would have to check payments monthly and that will take up valuable staff time.

          Yours ever so politely.

          Donald.

          Comment


          • #35
            Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

            Donald Walker wrote: Terry,

            As you know, I don't mind you calling me names, it is the moderators that object.
            It's not our objection, it's compliance with a set of rules agreed by Council of which Terry is a member. If Council change those rules we'll implement them.

            Donald Walker wrote: I think you are more likely to attract members by continuing to expand your good work with the simulator and by promoting the build-a plane project, than by offering monthly subs.
            It's been clarified that it's not monthly subs being offered, it's the possibility to pay an annual subscription fee in instalments, similar to Road Fund or TV licence.

            Donald Walker wrote: A direct debit mandate can be cancelled online, so the office would have to check payments monthly and that will take up valuable staff time.
            Direct Debits or Standing Orders AIUI are automated and are flagged up if declined, they would not need to be checked but would be notified, this seems to be how annual subs paid annually are handled.

            Comment


            • #36
              Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

              OK. I've voted for the proposal, although I wouldnt pay monthly personally, thats no reason to deny others the possibility if they want to, and as long as the costs are covered by the people using the facility.

              Comment


              • #37
                Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                It's alright for you Andy... your from darn south,where money grows on tree's ;-)
                I fly SSDR and although I remain a member and support the BMAA the monthly option would be appealing.
                It's worth the membership fee for the magazine but if I was being really tight I could scrounge my mates copy to read.
                I see Joan's point about people abusing the system but certainly from the point of SSDR owners it might attract a few more or tempt existing members to remain.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                  But if you wanted to pay monthly you would have to pay an extra x% for the facility, so it would be costing you more money. It's like saying you want a Wonga loan on 70! I'm sure you're not that hard up Wayne, even though I did buy that Quik off you for a good price :-)

                  Not quite sure where the money trees are yet, been diggin' for ages :-)

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                    Donald Walker wrote: Terry,

                    I think you are more likely to attract members by continuing to expand your good work with the simulator and by promoting the build-a plane project, than by offering monthly subs.

                    A direct debit mandate can be cancelled online, so the office would have to check payments monthly and that will take up valuable staff time.

                    Yours ever so politely.

                    Donald.
                    Donald, Its not about attracting members its their primerily to keep them, but, yes if paying the low monthy figure on the spot then there is more chance or recruiting.
                    Also once the DD is set up it only requires one letter a year to inform the member that their payments have either stayed the same or gone up, its up to the member to cease the DD so once set up there is no manual work.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                      Terry, thats not really the case is it. There's all the extra effort monitoring for payments that have been stopped. chasing up people that change accounts and for one reason or another fail to renew the monthly DD. And what about those that take out a months DD in order to get their permits etc. and then stop payment? There's all the work involved in keeping on top of that. Not saying it cant all be done, just that there is a more to it than you are suggesting.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                        It would look good on a poster I guess. 'Join the BMAA, only 1.50 a week!'. Might help to retain non flying members who might otherwise drift off. How many people have monthly gym memberships or magazine subs they 'forget' to cancel cos it's only a few quid? However, as has been mentioned, the extra complexity would need to be taken into account. Perhaps Terry could do a thorough costing? In any case, I will still be paying it in one go, and I suspect that will be the case for other flying members.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                          Laurie Bassett wrote: Terry, thats not really the case is it. There's all the extra effort monitoring for payments that have been stopped. chasing up people that change accounts and for one reason or another fail to renew the monthly DD.
                          Laurie, just to clarify that your feelings of caution about the association's finances are well founded and respected.

                          If DDs fail to be collected you are informed. Changes of account should take the DDs with them, in the newer style of the Current Account Switch Service explained

                          Whilst the funds will be collected monthly the contract is for a year. No one needs to do anything to maintain the payments, except remain within their bank overdraft limits. Only a lack of money or premeditated cancellation will end the automated process.

                          Laurie Bassett wrote: And what about those that take out a months DD in order to get their permits etc. and then stop payment? There's all the work involved in keeping on top of that. Not saying it cant all be done, just that there is a more to it than you are suggesting.
                          Depends on how draconian you want to be. You could simply sell the debt to a debt collection agency. You could yellow card and admin fee them for the hassle, and on second time simply red card & kick them out of the association permanently. Totally over the top. There's a sensible solution somewhere in the middle. Maybe you wouldn't offer it to permit holders. Maybe you'd ask the permit applicant to pay up the remaining subs for a permit issue?

                          Of course, we need to look at costs, and possible consider efficacy, we would hope that the flip side of making life easier for members would be to keep more of them.

                          Without wanting to offend anyone, may I suggest that those who post with the luxury of financial security maybe cross the tracks and re-visit the issue?

                          To balance this up, may I also suggest that those who support the idea might suggest some safeguards for the BMAA's financial well-being?

                          Conceptually, I think it's a good idea. However, for it to be a real life good idea, it needs to work logistically and financially.

                          The Devil, as Laurie points out, is in the detail, and I agree with him about that.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                            Laurie, the main aim of this ids to help stem the outflow of members and to get others to join such as the number collecting brigade and the Laa and Glider people and believe it or not the paraglider people that come under the umbrella of microlighting but most are not members.
                            If we keep the average rate of loss as it has been over ten years and increase the membership fees at the same rate as we have done over the last ten years then I suspect there will not be mush of a membership left. because we are a smaller organisation than the LAA we do not have differant catergories of membership so unless we recruit severly then who knows what will happen,
                            Yes its all supposition and i have tried very hard over the last few years to do what I could to get new ideas into the BMAA but its very hard work.
                            just to give you an idea how hard it is I spent the 2 days of the Telford Show trying to get voluntary donations to go towards the Build a plane project and managed to get 75 and considering that one person gave a Tenner and 3 others put a Fiver in the tin, now, last Friday evening I spent 2 hours in the foyer of Morrisons at Coventry on a not to busy night collecting for a small Salvation Army band playing carols, myself and one of the bandsmens wife collected 384 in that 2 hours never mind 2 days. thats how hard it is in this microlighting game.

                            TV

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                            • #44
                              Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                              Terry, please dont feel that the work you do is not valued or recognised, or that people are not putting a lot of thought into the responses to your proposal. Totally the reverse, and its by no means a knee-jerk negative response. Its just expressing the concerns about areas that would certainly need to be addressed to take the proposal forward. Take it positively Terry, and address the concerns - in particular about the costs involved. Talk of a pound extra is all very well, but it would still require some financial planning to work out the true costs. Asking for a pound extra, but having to go back after six months to ask for another pound extra would not go down well.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Possibility to pay BMAA membership by monthly subs?

                                I guess you mean Paramotor Terry. Not Paraglider? Paraglider pilots will be members of the British Paraglider and Hanglider association. It's no surprise Paramotor pilots don't join if we don't even know the name of their craft. If you are serious about attracting them you need to do some legwork and learn about their sport and work out what their culture and needs are and see what BMAA can offer them and market that. Maybe monthly subs might help - it's certainly a different end of the market to 80-90k super micros.

                                We have tried in the past, but it is not easy. Being unregulated, even the instructors are outside of any central group and the sport is very desperate with lots of individuals doing their own thing. So not easy to communicate with them and get any message across. And also hard to know what we can offer them that might attract them to join - beyond a magazine with a token article or two every month. Needs a good head scratch and a good plan if we are serious about attracting them.

                                Paul

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