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  • #31
    New P@M HypeR

    [quote]Donald Walker wrote: Then you will forever be restricted to UK manufactured aircraft. There is no max ZFW in Europe and no manufacturer is going to produce one weighing
    Andy Aiken
    BMAA 5417

    G-CITG

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    • #32
      New P@M HypeR

      I have finally seen some pictures of the new HypeR.... what does everyone think? Very little chat about it on the internet.

      Comment


      • #33
        New P@M HypeR

        The thing with increasing the weight limit is that it's like building more roads.

        ....designers will just design to a higher empty weight (for more performance) and you're left with the same problem.

        You either have to accept you want to fly a microlight, or you want to fly LSA.

        Comment


        • #34
          New P@M HypeR

          Andy Aiken wrote:
          Currently the Eurostar, CT and C42 are available in the UK, granted they are fitted with a BRS which increases the ZFW to around 290 but at least it's still restricted and any additional allowance to MTOW. would be for payload
          Andy,

          Fitting parachutes is a very expensive way of increasing payload. An LAA Eurostar is now available with a MTOW of 495kg, without a parachute. It was not possible to get mine, built in 2011, to meet the max ZFW for a microlight.

          Attached files

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          • #35
            New P@M HypeR

            Andy Fell wrote:
            You either have to accept you want to fly a microlight, or you want to fly LSA.
            Couldn't agree more.

            As a trike pilot, l quite like the look of the HypeR - but I'm terrified about it's potential price point!
            Paul

            http://www.hunsdonmicrolightclub.info/

            Comment


            • #36
              New P@M HypeR

              Andy Fell wrote: The thing with increasing the weight limit is that it's like building more roads.

              ....designers will just design to a higher empty weight (for more performance) and you're left with the same problem.

              You either have to accept you want to fly a microlight, or you want to fly LSA.
              Andy
              The problem is we are trying "to shut the hangar door after the overweight microlight has taken off". If we stick to 450kg the 3 axis fleet have to perpetually risk flying over weight or to convert to light aircraft, can this be good for an already dwindling UK microlight community.
              Andy Aiken
              BMAA 5417

              G-CITG

              Comment


              • #37
                New P@M HypeR

                Donald Walker wrote:
                Originally posted by Andy Aiken
                Currently the Eurostar, CT and C42 are available in the UK, granted they are fitted with a BRS which increases the ZFW to around 290 but at least it's still restricted and any additional allowance to MTOW. would be for payload
                Andy,

                Fitting parachutes is a very expensive way of increasing payload. An LAA Eurostar is now available with a MTOW of 495kg, without a parachute. It was not possible to get mine, built in 2011, to meet the max ZFW for a microlight.
                Donald
                That's the point we have created artificial barriers, what's the difference between an LAA Eurostar and a BMAA Eurostar. Nothing except you need a different licence to fly them. I sold my first kit built Eurostar (build 2007) to a guy that registered it as a light aircraft and immediately flew it at the higher weight limit. Maybe I'm wrong but that seems bonkers to me. I agree if you want to fill up your airplane with GA gear, artificial horizons, wing levellers and other stuff yes call it a light aircraft, but if you want to fly simply in microlights shouldn't we be able to do so with safe payload limits
                Andy Aiken
                BMAA 5417

                G-CITG

                Comment


                • #38
                  New P@M HypeR

                  Andy Aiken wrote:
                  Donald
                  That's the point we have created artificial barriers, what's the difference between an LAA Eurostar and a BMAA Eurostar. Nothing except you need a different licence to fly them. I sold my first kit built Eurostar (build 2007) to a guy that registered it as a light aircraft and immediately flew it at the higher weight limit. Maybe I'm wrong but that seems bonkers to me. I agree if you want to fill up your airplane with GA gear, artificial horizons, wing levellers and other stuff yes call it a light aircraft, but if you want to fly simply in microlights shouldn't we be able to do so with safe payload limits
                  Andy,

                  My point is that it will be difficult to keep the empty weight below 265kg for new aircraft. Your Eurostar met that requirement, but it is no longer produced by Evektor and the new SL model cannot meet the max ZFW without a parachute.
                  It would be ridiculous to increase the MTOW to 495kg, for example, and insist that the Eurostar SL is equipped with a parachute, so that it meets the max ZFW rule. That is why I disagree with those who say we must keep the max ZFW.

                  BTW, my Eurostar is equipped like a microlight, except for the spats and removing those would still not bring it under 265kg.

                  Donald

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    New P@M HypeR

                    Andy Aiken wrote:
                    Originally posted by Andy Fell
                    The thing with increasing the weight limit is that it's like building more roads.

                    ....designers will just design to a higher empty weight (for more performance) and you're left with the same problem.

                    You either have to accept you want to fly a microlight, or you want to fly LSA.
                    Andy
                    The problem is we are trying "to shut the hangar door after the overweight microlight has taken off". If we stick to 450kg the 3 axis fleet have to perpetually risk flying over weight or to convert to light aircraft, can this be good for an already dwindling UK microlight community.
                    Yes, that was what was said with the 390kg limit. 450kg was supposed to be the solution to that... so now we have the same problem, but at a higher weight....?

                    Like I say, it's just like building more roads.

                    Put the weight up and the price goes up, in more ways that one. It's no longer affordable aviation.. no wonder it's dwindling. For more touring/higher weights, why not fly LSA? I can't really see the point of having a 'heavy' microlight when it doesn't cost more to have an LSA.. Donald has done just this; which seems more sensible to me. Just get the SSEA rating and fly what you like...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      New P@M HypeR

                      Donald Walker wrote:
                      Originally posted by Andy Aiken
                      Donald
                      That's the point we have created artificial barriers, what's the difference between an LAA Eurostar and a BMAA Eurostar. Nothing except you need a different licence to fly them. I sold my first kit built Eurostar (build 2007) to a guy that registered it as a light aircraft and immediately flew it at the higher weight limit. Maybe I'm wrong but that seems bonkers to me. I agree if you want to fill up your airplane with GA gear, artificial horizons, wing levellers and other stuff yes call it a light aircraft, but if you want to fly simply in microlights shouldn't we be able to do so with safe payload limits
                      Andy,

                      My point is that it will be difficult to keep the empty weight below 265kg for new aircraft. Your Eurostar met that requirement, but it is no longer produced by Evektor and the new SL model cannot meet the max ZFW without a parachute.
                      It would be ridiculous to increase the MTOW to 495kg, for example, and insist that the Eurostar SL is equipped with a parachute, so that it meets the max ZFW rule. That is why I disagree with those who say we must keep the max ZFW.

                      BTW, my Eurostar is equipped like a microlight, except for the spats and removing those would still not bring it under 265kg.

                      Donald
                      Donald
                      I agree we should not insist on the fitting of a parachute to achieve ZFW, those who make these decisions for us should set a sensible achievable ZFW and MTOW allowing a safe workable payload. The ZFW for a Eurostar SL is 290kg, it could stay at that but drop the requirement for a BRS. Add the payload, 2 slightly porky people ( that would be me) 180kg, 10kg for the odds and sods and 45kg for fuel for a total of 525kg. Just seems sensible to me. The exact numbers would be for more knowledgable people that me to agree maybe less maybe more.
                      Andy Aiken
                      BMAA 5417

                      G-CITG

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        New P@M HypeR

                        Andy Fell wrote:
                        Originally posted by Andy Aiken
                        Originally posted by Andy Fell
                        The thing with increasing the weight limit is that it's like building more roads.

                        ....designers will just design to a higher empty weight (for more performance) and you're left with the same problem.

                        You either have to accept you want to fly a microlight, or you want to fly LSA.
                        Andy
                        The problem is we are trying "to shut the hangar door after the overweight microlight has taken off". If we stick to 450kg the 3 axis fleet have to perpetually risk flying over weight or to convert to light aircraft, can this be good for an already dwindling UK microlight community.
                        Yes, that was what was said with the 390kg limit. 450kg was supposed to be the solution to that... so now we have the same problem, but at a higher weight....?

                        Like I say, it's just like building more roads.

                        Put the weight up and the price goes up, in more ways that one. It's no longer affordable aviation.. no wonder it's dwindling. For more touring/higher weights, why not fly LSA? I can't really see the point of having a 'heavy' microlight when it doesn't cost more to have an LSA.. Donald has done just this; which seems more sensible to me. Just get the SSEA rating and fly what you like...
                        I've got the SSEA rating and yes I could register my microlight as a light aircraft but I would like to participate in the national competitions and other microlight events, I can't afford two aircraft so I guess I'll have to go on a diet and fly around on a thimble full of fuel, better read up on all that info on field selection :-)
                        Andy Aiken
                        BMAA 5417

                        G-CITG

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          New P@M HypeR

                          In our hangars, people look at weightshifts and say microlights, look at the rest and say aircraft.

                          From the lack of interest in the HypeR in this thread - which now seems more about Eurostars! - P&M have a big (or should that be small?) problem if they want to sell HypeRs!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            New P@M HypeR

                            Can't understand why the hyper was knitted out with dual dynon said and efis........ Then an ancient radio looked odd that's all.

                            Not that I agee with Andy Aiken, I do.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              New P@M HypeR

                              Colin_MacKinnon wrote: In our hangars, people look at weightshifts and say microlights, look at the rest and say aircraft.

                              From the lack of interest in the HypeR in this thread - which now seems more about Eurostars! - P&M have a big (or should that be small?) problem if they want to sell HypeRs!
                              Would love one, but they're going to be 45k or something like that. Anyone with that sort of spare cash is probably of the wealthy retired type who are more likely to buy a C42 for that kind of money. Flex wings must've been out numbered by 3:1 at Popham on Saturday.

                              The second hand market is propping up a lot of the flex fleet now. But I hope that some new ones are sold otherwise it'll all dry up!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                New P@M HypeR

                                I agree with David McFee. Full fuel tank weight. That is the way to prevent people taking off overweight.

                                Back when single seaters were permitted you couldn't trade fuel weight for pilot weight in a single seater. You just had to have a small enough fuel tank that the numbers added up. That then restricted the kind of flying you could do which made sense.

                                Full tank weight will create a situation were if you want to fly a microlight then you buy the version with the small tanks and you are thus restricted in the kind of flying you do. Want to go international touring and you get a different license, and buy a plane with a different permit and larger tanks. This seems to me to be self regulating. (I'm sure there's something I haven't thought of).

                                The point is that the pilot makes the choice of the kind of flying he does and that justifies a different license and permit regime.

                                Laurie (2)

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