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Miss it, The Flying show this week ;-(

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  • Miss it, The Flying show this week ;-(

    Just noticed the bike show is on this week and it is show type weather !!!
    Don't worry its been cancelled and just at a time when we are pushing the PR stuff.

    Anybody else think that the BMAA should be putting on some sort of trade show maybe a bit smaller and cosy because apart from anything the AGM belongs alongside it.

    The trade want to sell and the members want to meet up with their mates and talk flying.

    How about next year and somewhere central

    Please
    please
    please
    Mick Broom
    Member 909
    Shadow G-MWTN

  • #2
    What a good idea! It'd be great to see the latest advances in light-weight two-seaters :-)

    I've also posted a question about the AGM in the members-only bit
    The pilot formerly posting as MadamBreakneck
    R examiner and TST pilot.
    and now a Tai Chi instructor

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    • #3
      I agree that there should be a Flying Show in the winter months, was amazed when it was kicked into touch.

      Comment


      • #4
        I am sure to get shot down in flames here but for what it is worth.

        The Flying Show was dead, it had run its course and to re-brand it Flyer Live was a quick down and dirty way of trying to make it work, it didnt. Gate numbers had been dropping year on year to the point where you could throw a bowling ball down the gangways in clear knowledge that you wouldn't hit a sole. Flyer mag would not release the gate numbers when I inquired, my guess is because they were dire.

        Costs, for a company to put on a good show, not just tip up with an aircraft and leave it in floor space, but to turn up and do it right with transport, accommodation, subsistence, overtime and lack of production / sales because you aren't back at base doing what you normally do is significant. I wont bore you with our costs but unless you are selling it isn't worth it, the last Flyer show I did I had the same old faces asking the same questions they had done for 3 years earlier, with no intentions of buying now or in the future. Now compare that to the car, bike, boat, shooting and model engineering shows and there is no comparison, they wipe the floor with our show end of, just for fun I have visited 3 shows this year to see what the market is like and boy I was shocked at the high volumes of visitors, the money changing hands and the distances traveled.

        So in my humble opinion if you want a show Telford isn't the place, find a sensibly priced location mid country, and it needs to be an airfield so people and exhibitors can fly in, trailering is a nightmare, I speak with experience. Do it every 2 years and it needs to be completely re-configured to attract significantly more folk in. Dont have the typical add-on stands no more crap tools that break on second use, dont have companies selling garden planters, if its a flying and pilot show then do that, although you might want to align it with other extreme sports so there is genuine cross over, but get quality in.

        It is a vicious circle, shows are a nightmare to organise, the organiser is never right, and who wants to put themselves into that position?? Seriously if you want to test the old ticker, organise a show, beats a stress ECG any day...

        To bring in big names to entice the punters costs money but they dont like high entry costs that are needed to pay for those big names!!! Look at the EAA in the US, one hell of a show but you are going to pay 20 to 30 to get in but their volumes of visitors make it all pay and trades stands are taking $$$ good money so nobody moans. Everybody wants that amazing deal when in fact it has cost the exhibitors so much to do the show they should actually be selling at higher prices to cover their costs, but we dont? The problem with aviation is it is a small market in the UK and getting folk motivated is the big issue.

        If the BMAA members want a get together then that shouldn't be based around a show?? get a BMAA conference together, no exhibitors but people could meet all their mates and discuss all the current topics, get some lectures going on as well. If you want a show to see the toys, then make it a show and don't tack stuff on.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree. There was a time when I would happily drive from East Sussex to Telford or Birmingham for the show, but not any more. Nothing to do with age, traffic or cost, just a lack of anything interesting to see or buy that I have not already seen in the flesh or on the internet.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Paul Hendry-Smith View Post
            I am sure to get shot down in flames here but for what it is worth.
            (I took over SPLASH at the last minute in 2004, re-branded it the Flying Show and organised it in 2005/6/7/9 and 2011)

            I can't disagree with much of this. I believe it comes down to market size; we are 4000 members(ish) and that simply does not compete with car, bike, boat, shooting and model engineering. We tried a tie-in with model flying, LAA, BHPA, BBA (balloons) but that didn't work. There simply wasn't the support. We tried to associate ourselves with the Bike show but they expected us to have a stand at theirs and the total cost was close to 10k. The Flying show only ever turned over 50k at best (turnover, not profit).

            Some traders (selling electronic stuff) loved the show. 4000 customers all keen to pay 1500 for new kit (but then moaning about the 6 parking fee). Those exhibiting aeroplanes had high costs with no immediate return as it was another part of their advertising budget and often difficult to justify.

            We had to include tools/cleaning brushes just to try to make ends meet. The show was on an absolute shoestring and teetered between surplus and loss most years. Stand space at 10/m2 was at least 90% cheaper than the next cheapest show I could find. Most charge 300/m2 or more. Bike show certainly does.

            An outdoor show... Popham succeeds because when it p*sses it down all weekend Popham can take the hit because their cost base is practically zero. Even LAA moved from renting an airfield to being a customer at Sywell to reduce their exposure and pass it onto the airfield operator. I don't know that there's the appetite for what would essentially be a second LAA rally.

            A get-together... we've looked at that and continue to do so. It's not as simple as it sounds but I'd love to find a format that works.

            RobH
            Rob Hughes
            BMAA Member

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            • #7
              BMAA AGM at the LAA rally? is that heresy?

              Laurie (2)




              Originally posted by Robert Hughes
              An outdoor show... Popham succeeds because when it p*sses it down all weekend Popham can take the hit because their cost base is practically zero. Even LAA moved from renting an airfield to being a customer at Sywell to reduce their exposure and pass it onto the airfield operator. I don't know that there's the appetite for what would essentially be a second LAA rally.

              A get-together... we've looked at that and continue to do so. It's not as simple as it sounds but I'd love to find a format that works.

              RobH
              Last edited by Robert Hughes; 22nd December 2017, 09:19. Reason: typo

              Comment


              • #8
                Nope. We have a good working relationship with LAA so it shouldn't be dismissed. That said, we should be our own club with stuff that we organise for the benefit of our members. Other flying associations have dinner dances or expos or conferences. We need energy and drive behind such ideas to make them happen.

                RobH
                Rob Hughes
                BMAA Member

                Comment


                • #9
                  Having a stand at the LAA show would be a start !

                  And why not combine it with the LAA as both would benefit

                  Maybe we should look at the emerging paramotor shows which are music and entertainment festivals with fun flying , you don;t get much sleep with the the bands till 1am and the paramotors at 6am but the energy and buzz is amazing - 50 a ticket and sold out !

                  Maybe the BMAA is not ready for that sort of leap !

                  Still you have the magazine
                  Mick Broom
                  Member 909
                  Shadow G-MWTN

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Many good points raised.

                    You know anybody from outside of the industry would sit back and say for a market our size why on earth do we have 2 Sporting Org's, its insane and I have to agree.

                    Forget the politics and crap forget the bad blood and the us and them stance some take, however that happened just look at the size of the market and the costs incurred by both organisations?? You wouldn't run a business like it.

                    Yes there will be a load of you say they are businesses, true but you wouldn't run a business like it to make a profit, profit isn't a dirty word, profit ensures the longevity of organisations and businesses to make sure they meet your needs in the present and the future. The US EAA makes a profit, and they are not shy about saying that and I don't blame them, they have money to do things, money for shows, money to lobby government and money to invest and create even more money to do good things with, one of those being to invite more people to get into flying...... do we do such things here??? how do we encourage youth into our sport?? In the US they have the Young Eagles program in the UK???

                    I don't feel either of our sporting organisations have a plan for the future, they tend to wait for it to evolve, if we are to have a vibrant industry things have to change and it isn't about weight of aircraft it isn't about SEP or Microlight it is about how we can get people interested in flying, as when you have the headcount of a vibrant and growing sport then you can have the shows and the other good things.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Either? - two? - what about the BHPA who are actively seeking microlight members, and the BGA who have grabbed the self launching sailplanes in the microlight category.

                      So that’s four sporting aviation organisations.. I dont think it’s a given that LAA is natural merger partner ( and it’s been tried twice before with them and failed) - BHPA might be better fit for many..

                      Devils advocate out - have a good Christmas!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't think all this talk of merging with whoever is the correct starting point.

                        The aims of the BMAA are that we work together with all organisations for the common good of our type of flying and we need to demonstrate that first.
                        We are less than half the size of any of the other associations so not in a position to join and continue to influence decisions made in the same way.

                        There is plenty of common cause with the lighter end deregulation and when the 600Kg machines come in the heavier end showing an increase in overlap with other organisations so a few joint ventures would be a start.

                        The BMAA as it slides into a contracting business is becoming more defensive in its thinking, what is wrong in thinking that the deregulated market is a great opportunity for more members with estimates of 14,000 flying as the market size and all getting wonky legs. When the 600Kg thing comes in how about converting some of the LAA's 7000 members to join.

                        All this will need a big change in attitude from the management, is this possible?

                        If we want a show in the winter then it may take some time to get it to work and some new territory but if we don't start we will never arrive.

                        Happy new year and lots of safe flying in 2018
                        Mick Broom
                        Member 909
                        Shadow G-MWTN

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                        • #13
                          I wonder if the ssdr rally could be expanded to become a bmaa rally. A larger attendance from a greater cross section of the membership would hopefully tempt one or two more trade stands to come especially if stand costs were kept very low.

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                          • #14
                            I must agree about the SSDR attraction.

                            Admittedly it needs good wx, but always promises a fun day's aviating with something to see of interest & at an easy distance for my non SDR & non microlight Rans.
                            I've happily attended & bought stuff there, certainly multiples more than Splash or its predecessors, which latter entailed a long drive in winter when really I don't have anything urgent to buy.
                            Synergy also has its beneficial effects on attendees.

                            It begins to sound more like a Popham style 'show' but at a better time of the year - not at the season's start.

                            If an airfield has adequate car parking, maybe grub (?) & promises costings and set up man power requirement for a lower BMAA financial exposure too such a show should also attract folk coming by car. Camping of a basic sort could help for folk coming from afar, or those with a family who need alternative 'fun'.

                            With the existing SSDR show basics in place perhaps it could by agreement be expanded or perhaps with care copied elsewhere reasonably central in the form of an expanded 'fly-in' with inexpensive trade stands to ensure plenty of support.

                            mike hallam.

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                            • #15
                              A mid season Popham would be great wouldn't it? Must be a more central location though. The ssdr rally could double or triple it's attendance without a great deal more work. Maybe an appeal for some volunteers for certain jobs over the weekend would make it easier. I'm sure I could do something.

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