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  • BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

    Not an April fool, it's here.
    http://www.bmaa.org/news_item.php?wnID=10639

  • #2
    BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

    Hi Geoff,

    Has the BMAA considered that many flexwings will need to be flown with a passenger to get to within 20kg of mauw? It won't always be possible to achieve this weight with full fuel and normal ballast. Whilst recognising all the caveats that all manoeuvres can be flown within the normal flight envelope, the new procedures makes it clear that check flights do carry additional risks over normal day to day flying. Is the BMAA completely comfortable that it has not opened itself, and its members when conducting check flights, to some residual liability by demanding that these additional flights are made in such a manner, particularly when this was never a requirement under the previous procedure. Indeed, I understand that previously check pilots were specifically precluded from flying with the owner as passenger.

    Paul.

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    • #3
      BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

      Hi Paul,
      The reason that we didn't allow passengers, although we did authorise flight observers if a case was made for them to be carried, was to reduce the insurance risk at the expense of complying with the requirements to fly at as near to all up weight as possible. Now we don't carry that risk for about 2000 flights conducted by a limited pool of pilots that we selected and forced the owners to use. I do not believe that we have opened ourselves or the pilot up to any greater risk. At the risk of repetition, it works for the LAA's 500 microlights and 2000 light aircraft, why would it not work for us?

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      • #4
        BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

        Geoff i think what Paul is alluding to is that a lot of three axis Aircraft don't require that much ballast hence fuel trade off for passengers if you have full fuel whereas my quantum with a 409 kg mtow ie (me 80 kg +47 lt fuel say 35 kg + trike and wing 185 kg) means having 89 kg of ballast on the trike to fulfill the requirements , any suggestions how i get that on the rear seat, secured correctly , laa dont do trikes so they would have no idea how to make it work , to date my trike has never been required to do this under the previous scheme while i've owned it.
        Keven

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        • #5
          BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

          That is exactly my point, Keven, and it will be even more difficult for a GT450 or GTR. The only practical choice will be to fly check flights with a passenger.

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          • #6
            BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

            100 kg of self loading ballast available at reasonable rates + expenses

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            • #7
              BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

              :lol:

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              • #8
                BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

                Ironically, this has made my check flight more difficult than it was before! Now I need to find a victim passenger to stick in the back.. before hand I just loaded up the aircraft as much as I could with no passenger (due to insurance as described above).

                I can just imagine the discussion now.

                me: "Hey I'm going flying, would you like to come in the back while I do the annual check flight?"
                prospective passenger: "Errr, what?"

                :lol:

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                • #9
                  BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

                  Ironic isnt it how the goal posts can shift, for years the check flight was done with just the check pilot to protect the BMAA then all of a sardine when they wash their hands of the scheme they change the whole system, if it was good enough for for all those years how come the membership now are held to a higher standard ? what does it say about the previously entrusted check pilots. come on Geoff you were first up to herald this brave new world what would your suggestion be , or is it the BMAA forget about flex wings ??

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                  • #10
                    BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

                    Pretty much all the LAA check flights are done with a passenger, and lots of their aircaft have a tougher time getting to MTOW than our trikes as they aren't capped with the microlight weight limit - most of the LSA types for instance have 250kg or more of payload capability. With types of over two seats they have to have even more mates to sit in the seats.

                    We always use to do BMAA check flights dual most of the time until the BMAA insurers decided we couldn't anymore.Check flying at near MTOW makes sense as a performance and stall speed numbers check. Done solo it needed some experience on the part of the check pilot to make comparative judgements taking into account the effect of reduced weight. That was always a non ideal situation, and more so if using less experienced pilots to check fly - as we now have.

                    It needn't result in risk to the SLB ( self loading ballast) - the handbook advises any increased risk check flights ( post maintenance or first flights after bringing aircaft back into service after along layoff) are first flown solo. And the check flight can be carved up into seperate sorties if desired - it's only the climb rate and Stall speed that needs to be done within 20kg of MTOW. Also there is nothing in the check flight that is outside of normal allowed ops that you might care to do with a passenger every time you go flying, so difficult to make a case that it is irresponsible.

                    So I would respectfully suggest there isnt a lot to get angry about here - it's really just making it more logical - and consistent with the way LAA / CAA usually do it.

                    Paul

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                    • #11
                      BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

                      At the end of the day, though, Paul, for whatever reason we now have one extra requirement to meet that wasn't there before.

                      Personally, this isn't an issue for me personally as I'm both happy to conduct my own check flight and I have my own long suffering self loading ballast who isn't likely to sue me.

                      I understand quite a number of members wanted to retain the old system. I wasn't one of them, but we seem now to have ended up with a position where that service is no longer available to them as there are no longer BMAA check pilots. And for those happy to conduct their own flights instead of an easier and more flexible process we actually have something that is arguably more restrictive.

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                      • #12
                        BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

                        You guys are never satisfied !

                        For years you complained that you had to find the right sort of check pilot, may be miles away etc. etc. and envied the LAA system.

                        Well you got your way and what happens ?

                        Malcontents find something else in the arrangement to pick on and carry on moaning.

                        Let's face it, you CAN do your own check now and simply have to make sure the a/c is up to weight, which the LAA have always required. Not much of a 'hazard' considering at any time after that you can load your a/c right up with fuel, pax & camping gear - & that never seems to cross your mind.

                        Perhaps the BMAA should revert to the much loved (?) old arrangement for those pilots unable to carry out the test. .......... Then see what they say !

                        mikehallam.

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                        • #13
                          BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

                          Paul Collins wrote:
                          I understand quite a number of members wanted to retain the old system. I wasn't one of them, but we seem now to have ended up with a position where that service is no longer available to them as there are no longer BMAA check pilots.
                          Those who want to, can still get someone else to do the check flight for them... so this is covered, as long as their insurance is organised.

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                          • #14
                            BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

                            I've got a solution to Paul's problem, let's reduce the max weight down to 390kg...

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                            • #15
                              BMAA News item: New BMAA Check Flying System is Go

                              I found a good blow up doll filled with lead. Maybe she'll sit in the back?

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