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Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

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  • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

    I'm no legal expert but there seems to be a couple of key points to consider.

    The ANO wording is the law.

    The CAA seem to be adding extra restrictions to that law off their own bat whether by cock-up or by a deliberate attempt to sneak more regulation in under the radar. Call me cynical but I suspect the latter.

    Geoff's initiatives are great and I hope they succeed.

    If they don't, what next? Could or should we apply for judicial review?

    Cheers,

    Graham

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    • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

      Graham Smith wrote:
      The CAA seem to be adding extra restrictions to that law off their own bat
      Perhaps they are covered by 163 (6) (g)

      ANO wrote: such other medical conditions as the CAA may specify
      Which implies that the CAA can add whatever extra restrictions they fancy, whenever they like.

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      • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

        What was the number of that catch again?

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        • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

          Ray Pearce wrote:
          Originally posted by Graham Smith
          The CAA seem to be adding extra restrictions to that law off their own bat
          Perhaps they are covered by 163 (6) (g)

          ANO wrote: such other medical conditions as the CAA may specify
          Which implies that the CAA can add whatever extra restrictions they fancy, whenever they like.
          Surely the important word is MEDICAL! They can add a medical condition which could affect the safe operation .....etc, but how does that allow the ' drink driving conviction' clause to be added for example?

          Alan

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          • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

            Or if the ANO had said 'such other current or previous medical conditions that the CAA may specify' ..... but it doesn't
            Mike

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            • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

              My GP countersigned Medical runs out next month.
              Because of the, possibly UNLAWFUL, inserted words.... "or have had" in the form....................... I cannot see how I can sign the form without committing Purgery.

              I HAVE had in the past:

              Significant functional physical disability likely to impair safe operation of normal flight controls.

              And I am NOT prepared to pay an AME to simply say as does my GP... you are NOW fine.... so guess that like others, aircraft will be for sale.

              Comment


              • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                Wally,

                Did you have a current pilot's licence at the time you had the "Significant functional physical disability likely to impair safe operation of normal flight controls." ? If not then I don't see how the two are connected.

                As has been pointed out by many people on here, if you broke your leg when you were 10 years old it would be a "Significant functional physical disability likely to impair safe operation of normal flight controls." and would thus bar you from signing the form. But that would be totally ridiculous, as any lawyer worth his pound of flesh will tell you. So unless the injury incapacitated you while you held your pilots's licence, then I don't see how the CAA could in any way imply that it is relevant. Of course, if they don't amend the wording then perhaps a legal precedent needs to be set, but that would require someone like yourself who has nothing more to lose becoming a guinea pig to test out the system, and see if a judge would agree with the unenforceability of the requirement.

                So having said the above, is there the possibility that the BMAA (members and association) and the AME's would be prepared to help fund such a case against the CAA? Perhaps a fighting fund should be set up in order to be able to brief a brief for the battle, and see what result can be achieved?

                Best regards,
                XL's forever! Well, one of them anyway. It's all I can afford, not to mention the Raven and the Mini-Max. Oh, and I almost forgot the Spectrum as well :-)

                Comment


                • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                  Geoff - here's a scenario that you have probably considered, but if not, is it worth pointing this out to CAA?
                  I am OK to sign the self declaration at the moment and have done and presumably this will hold water until I'm 70 when I have to self declare again to DVLA (actually when I think through the logic I don't think it means I also have to self declare again to CAA?). But what if next year I break an arm. Theoretically I should send a form in self-disqualifying for the duration of the injury. But then I need an AME to get my licence back. AND more importantly that would have to be done forever more as I could never revert to self declaration. As a PPL M holder how often would I have to have that AME medical?
                  Thanks
                  Mike

                  Comment


                  • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                    Bob
                    Short answer (moving on from my earlier post) is YES.

                    Some 8 weeks ago I suffered a problem which caused me a sciatic nerve problem, "Significant functional physical disability likely to impair safe operation of normal flight controls" meaning I did not have full use of my limbs at that time which stopped me flying (off my own bat).

                    Now fully recovered my GP (who happens to be fully coversent with the original CAA Self Dec REQUIREMENTS WOULD "HAPPILY SIGN ME OFF AGAIN TODAY". but now I HAVE HAD A DISQUALIFYING situation ( whilst holding a licence).. so I am BUGGERED...... commit purgery, or spend for an AME to say ok... or sell the plane......... unless my non expiring Egypt Air medical suffices.

                    I like a challenge, but why on earth should anyone have to be a "guinea pig" simply to prove that our masters, the CAA (like ALL political institutions) TELL LIES and change the rules at the drop of a hat.
                    So much for consultation......
                    Seems to me that the CAA is all powerful and he likes of the BMAA have little influence ... in spite of Geoff's sterling work

                    Comment


                    • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                      Wally

                      It's worse than that because even if your GP could sign you off again as fit to fly, and irrespective of now having a 'history ', there is no GP form to sign. It's been removed!

                      Alan

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                      • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                        Why would the AMEs help us out? They stand to make a killing.

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                        • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                          Hello gents. Does anyone please know if there is anything to stop someone self declaring before their current medical expires, as long as they meet all of the necessary conditions?

                          Comment


                          • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                            I can see no reason why not. If I had forgotten when mine ran out, for example, that is what I would do.

                            Comment


                            • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                              My current medical declaration ran out on my birthday last Sunday, but I filled out the new form and sent it off in the middle of last week, before my old one ran out. However, the CAA didn't comment on it, so I guess it's alright.
                              XL's forever! Well, one of them anyway. It's all I can afford, not to mention the Raven and the Mini-Max. Oh, and I almost forgot the Spectrum as well :-)

                              Comment


                              • Changes to the Self Declaration Medical system - 25 August 2016

                                I was pleased to hear earlier that the CAA has released a new version of the medical declaration which for aircraft under 2000 kg represents exactly what we hoped for - a simple standard based on UK driving licences.

                                Thanks are due to BMAA CEO Geoff Weighell for his untiring efforts to get this result.

                                http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=7493

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