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  • Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

    I am just setting out learning to fly, and being of advancing years and having had a heart attack three years ago I thought it best to ge the Medical Declaration out of the way before progressing too far. I went to my GP on Monday to discuss this and he said that he was happy to sign the form for Group 1 (allowing me ultimately to fly without a passenger) with a review of my medical history. But he said he was uncomfortable signing me off for Group 2 without a medical assessment (exercise tolerance, ECG, etc) at a cost of 120. He didn't say this was because of my medical history but rather that for signing similat documents for professional drivers he would do a medical examination.

    What are other's experiences of this? Am I wrong thinking he is just trying to make money out of this, or is this relatively normal?

  • #2
    Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

    It can helpful if you take the relevant paperwork complete with explanatory notes (all downloadable) with the paragraphs that emphasise the basis of the declaration highlighted.

    Also I notice that you are "of advancing years" so your declaration is far more frequent that of younger pilots. Should he insist that the medical is required in your case it could be worthwhile to ask if, with that medical in your records, that unless something should occur in the meantime a simple sign off would suffice in following years

    Ginge

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    • #3
      Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

      I took the Declaration with the notes for both pilot and GP. I also took Chapter 2 on cardio-vascular issues. His approach seemed to me to be that if he was signing the declaration for Group 2 for someone wishing to drive, he would do a medical on that person and not rely on their medical history.

      WIth regard to the cardiac event, I had a heart attack caused by complete blockage of one artery and 80% blockage of another supplying the heart. These blockages were clear by angioplasty (insertion of mesh coils in the arteries involved). I was told by the consultant that my chance of me having another heart attack (provided I keep taking the tablets and follow the healthy eating regime, etc) was now considerably less than someone who has no know history of heart problems.

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      • #4
        Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

        Tom, something else that may be worth consideration if the GP practice has more that one doctor is to try another.

        I did this as the doctor that I saw normally insisted on a medical, when this became due every year I asked to see a different doctor in the same practice. Not only did I find a GP that was an old PPL, a read through my records and a sign off cost me a fiver. So I ended up saving 65 a year, and having several good flying chats with my now regular doctor, I count that as a result.

        Good luck

        Ginge

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        • #5
          Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

          Thanks for all the assistance - I'm waiting for a call from the doctor anyway to say he's had a chance to review my notes. Maybe in the meantime he'll have conferred with others and sign me off for Group 2 as well. I can but hope.

          I'm not letting it put me off learning to fly - the chances are that with my finances I'll be going for an SSDR Microlight anyway so the Group 2 would be largely superfluous and only useful if I could hire/borrow a 2 seater.

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          • #6
            Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

            As I understand it (I'm not an expert) The standard for the NPPL (unrestricted) is supposed to be the same as for the HGV.

            I have always had to have a medical to maintain my HGV. No doctor has ever signed that without a medical.

            I therefore conclude that we may not be being reasonable in expecting our GP to sign the NPPL form without a medical.

            I may be wrong.
            Laurie (2)

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            • #7
              Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

              I've never understood it either Laurie, the HGV medical is a physical examination and yet the NPPL licence only requires that your practitioner checks that there is nothing in your medical records that would exclude you from flying. I believe that if you have a car licence you are able to have a restricted licence but if you have an HGV licence you are entitled to have an unrestricted one.
              John

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              • #8
                Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

                It's down to the wording and in particular the tense, when it says that the doctor who has sight of the medical records is signing to say that there is nothing in the records that would preclude the gaining of a class 2 medical.

                You might be at deaths door but the doc is signing based on what is written in the patient records, not your current state of health.

                But you're right, to then proceed and actually get the class 2 entitlement, you need to have the medical.

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                • #9
                  Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

                  Avoid the medical, it's unnecessary for NPPL medical declaration and you never know what it might turn up. I'd try and avoid the CAA/AME medical for the same reason.

                  GP's are mostly in group practices so print the DVLA information and take it to a consultation with another doctor (it's on the web, pm me if you need help finding it). Ask for his signature and explain the relevant significance very briefly about how the DVLA view your cardiac condition - there's info sheets on their website for all relevant problems. Hopefully you'll be successful, remember he's not being asked to say you're fit to fly, just that there's nothing in your notes the DVLA need to know about for driving except your cardiac condition which hopefully will be covered in the bumph you'll take along. If you're polite, accurate and keep it brief you are highly likely to be successful (but don't worry whether you end up with class 1 or class 2, SSDR is by far the best form of microlight flying!)

                  Richard (now A&E doc. but a GP in another life)

                  P.S. On a complete aside, your GP is under no obligation to fill in your form and can charge whatever he chooses for doing so, it's completely outside his NHS contract and certainly not part of his job!

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                  • #10
                    Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

                    I had the same problem last year during the beginning of my training. The airfield told me that it was a records check procedure, and I waltzed into my local surgery thinking it would be a quick sign off on the paper, but 2 mins later it was clear that the doctor wasn't signing anything without a medical, even though i'm not yet 'advancing in years'.

                    If i'd known he was going to say 'over there, clothes off' I would have worn more attractive undies!

                    I have to say that it made my wife laugh for hours, and I actually felt quite good about having no obvious defects. My airfield pals were outraged though and wanted me to cause a fuss. To be honest, I feel more confident knowing that there is slightly less chance of me keeling over whist flying precious family cargo in the back.

                    Steve

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                    • #11
                      Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

                      Having the HGV medical every 5 years, I take the medical declaration for the pilot license along and get that signed at the same time.Still costs 120 quid but the firm pays.However there are Doctors out there who seem to specialise in HGV medicals ,I have seen one advertising 45 for the medical!.Probably contacting the Road Haulage Association locally or asking around the larger transport firms might find the local truckers doc.Might be one way to get " the signature".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

                        To recap, a GP medical is not required and unnecessary for NPPL medical self-declaration. If your GP wants to do a medical despite your explanation and showing him the form then he's being an @rse (as he's completely entitled to be, it's not within his job description to sign forms for NPPL licences!)

                        I would leave it a while and ask a different doctor in the practice to complete your form instead, failing that change doctors.

                        And passing such a medical is absolutely no indication of good health!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

                          It is NOT an HGV medical.

                          It is "commercial driving" standard, which is for LGV (light goods vehicles) and PCV - not HGV.

                          HGV medical is like saying a flying medical is Class 1!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

                            This is my first posting on this forum although reading for a while. Although I have been training now for 15 hours on flexwings decided very recently that I should obtain my Medical declaration from my GP.

                            Due to my working outside the UK for the majority of the time I rarely see the Doctor and therefore thought in my ignorance that ,they have all my medical records, they can see clearly that I have zero reason to be rejected and not reach the required standard , therefore this should be almost a rubber stamp (with the exaggerated bill that always follows)

                            How wrong can anybody be..........

                            The form duly filled in, the back up documentation all attached, hand carried to the surgery and handed over to the receptionist with the advice that it was not ultra urgent and requested a call when it would be ready and how much I would owe.

                            After two weeks my wife called the surgery and was told that the doctor needed me to call her to discuss, gave me a time call which would suit her and the ball was in my court to arrange that time free at work. (which is in Norway at present) .

                            I have just had the most incredulous conversation with anybody I have ever had in my life. The doctor is point blank refusing to countersign anything and would only keep repeating that she is a doctor and does not sign anything that may implicate her. I tried very hard to explain and went through each section of the 'notes for general practitioners' breaking each section down to bite size pieces to attempt understanding on her part. Absolutely no joy at all. I tried to explain that all she was doing was confirming my declaration that I had nothing in my records precluding obtaining a DVLA group 2 driving licence, no joy . At this point however she advised that I do not require my GP's confirmation but require a NPPL medical adviser to sign as it states in the notes.

                            I was lost for words and requested she re read the form and understand it a little better. To which the reply was I have spent half an hour reading this and who is going to pay for that time.

                            Sorry I hung up

                            Where do I go now , changing GP's is not that easy I am led to believe although after this it may not be a option to stay

                            Any advise from anyone who has been in this situation would be greatly appreciated as I am now at a loss.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Medical Examination for Medical Declaration???

                              Are there other doctors in the practice that you now attend? If so don't forget that you are registered to a practice rather than an individual doctor, so request that you next see another doctor.

                              Changing practices doesn't sound to difficult if that is the only way that you can avoid this obdurate sounding doctor, see

                              http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1088.asp...CategoryID=158

                              Good Luck

                              Ginge

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